Tue Feb 5, 2008 9:20AM EST
See Comments (64)
A couple of years ago—say 2003 to 2005—you bought a piece of technology almost expecting that it wouldn't work right out of the box. Hardware vendors were getting squeezed out of business, the number of players in the consumer electronics field was shrinking. And price wars and margins made it tough for manufacturers to do the quality assurance testing they should have.
Experts say that product reliability has continued to improve. But I'm not so sure. My suspicion is that quality assurance may be getting sloppy again. And I'm naming names.
The last four products I bought (or tested) all came with problems on arrival. First there was a new Dell XPS laptop. The display screen was fine if you ran office applications; but if you displayed an image there were red halos and bands. (See photo that I sent to the tech guys.)
Next up was my Kindle book reader, which has intermittent bouts of being unable to connect to the Amazon bookstore. It requires a weekly reboot. Then it was my NeatReceipts. The scanner was wonderful for scanning business cards and receipts, but has problems with 8 x 11 documents and leaves a black stripe down the scan (usually indicative of bad sensors in one place on the scanner). Last, but not least, I was testing an InGrid home security system, and after I went to the trouble of placing sensors in doorways throughout my home, the base station couldn't communicate with them. Diagnostics proved that it was a defective unit. A replacement worked just fine.
So who's right about reliabilty? Me, who sees a new downward trend, or the analysts, who say that things are getting better? I picked 25 random folks from my address book and asked them how their tech lives were faring.
From San Francisco, a mom of three reported that her teenage daughter's Canon SD 600 ELPH died a sad display-death just past the warranty date. Her son's Paparazzi Swatch watch (a discontinued model) took a lot of technician time to set up properly and had extra service charges that were not well documented.
It actually did my heart good to note that Apple users live on Prozac, too. An executive in the entertainment business writes: "I bought my wife and I matching Macs last Xmas. My wife has had hers replaced once and it has been in the shop numerous times. Now mine is on the fritz. We have owned numerous iPods and they go down regularly. The design is beautiful but the quality is weak."
An analyst in Pennsylvania says he thinks I'm just seeing the effects of a mass market. He writes: "Other than the suction cups on my Garmin life has been fine." He adds, "I think I'm buying a lot more CE products than I did in the past, and they are more complex and perform more functions, so I'm thinking that there's a lot more opportunity for things to go wrong."
A New York writer just replaced an old eMachines with a brand new HP minitower. There was a mysterious clicking sound coming from the disk drive, though everything appeared to be working. He had it checked out and, sure ‘nuff, it turned out to be a bad drive. "At this stage of the game bad drives shouldn't be leaving the factory," he says.
Another New Yorker doesn't put much stock in my argument, though he hears more "bad product" stories than ever. He says, "the percentage of gadgets going gimpy is about the same, but there are a LOT more gadgets that bite off more than they can chew." And the only other Kindle user I know? He's having issues with how the unit powers up. Sometimes it goes off and can't be turned back on even after it's been charging all night.
Call me paranoid, but I smell a decline. The profit margins, the increasing demand for products, and the unpredictable nature of electronic components (worse than batches of cookies) all make it tough to make good products.
How can you find out more about which products have better street cred? Both PC Magazine and PC World report on service and reliability issues where they poll a lot more people than I just did.
And feel free to share your reliability experiences.
Join in the discussion. Here you'll see the comments in the order they were posted.
I think an expert in statistical studies might find some problems with this informal study... mostly because people are much less likely to respond when things are going well. I have tried to remember all the "tech stuff" I have purchased over the past year or three. Almost all of it has worked well (knock on wood furiously). This has included, but is no limited to, a Kodak Easyshare z612, a Sony Handycam, a Maxtor external drive, three Dell Inspiron 1521 laptops (for family members), a number of different types of Apple iPods, an HP Pavilion tx1000, an LG HD TV, a Garmnin Streetpilot c530, and a number of LG cell phones. These are just the major toys that come to mind. They all worked well. One notable exception that caused me great suffering was a laptop. Every now and then, the screen would just go blank, necessitating a reboot, resulting in the loss of any project I happened to be working on at the time. I'm not going to mention the brand name, because they did eventually refund my money. Still, I have no plans to buy any more of their products.
Thank goodness we still have the Xbox 360. At least one company still knows quality and reliability.
Here is the deal... You are all a bunch of uneducated newbs. You buy what is on the shelf at Best Buy and you get jacked. They sell poor quality products because they are cheap. Walmart is an even bigger joke!!! Companies will make a slightly different model just for sale at walmart. They cut the production cost by making it even sloppier on the quality side. The key to getting "good" electronics is understanding what "chipset" the device uses. These "chipsets" are made by some semiconductor manufacturer and the company that makes your electronic devices buys these chipsets. If your electronic device doesn't have a highend chipset, THIS IS A RED FLAG that they are cutting corners all over the place. I switched up my wireless card in my laptop after I bought it. I went from seeing two networks at my house to seeing 12 networks at my house... What was the difference?? I went from some no name card using a broadband chipset to a no name card using an ATHEROS AR5005 GS chipset. WOW what a difference and it only costed me $22.45 on E-bay. F#@$ Best Buy.....
Got a new Dell Precision 690 shipped here...not an inexpensive system: dual quad-core Xeon processors, 2GB, 500GBx2 RAID 0 storage, good soundcard, over $3500. Motherboard and memory worked for three days. 2nd motherboard installed by a Dell onsite support had bad LAN hardware. 3rd motherboard is working, so far (holding my breath). It's enough to give Chinese electronics a bad name! *LOL*
RoHS may have something to do with it... taking the lead out allows formation of "tin whiskers" between solder pads and traces. over time, these can grow to the point that they create short circuits between traces or components and cause a failure. this is a big problem in aerospace electronics, and some aerospace companies are telling suppliers they don't want products containing RoHS-compliant parts. i've worked in the electronics industry for 30 years, and the production processes used in manufacturing components themselves - integrated circuits, capacitors, resistors, etc. - have improved dramatically, to the point where component failure due to faulty die is actually relatively rare. chip makers use automated machinery that all but eliminates human error, and considering the millions of die they produce annually, the number with problems is really insignificant. quality issues usually occur in less reliable processes where there's more human intervention, such as fabrication of the circuit boards, transformers, and assembly processes. use of cheap materials for mechanical assemblies also plays a part. plastic parts fail more often than metal, but they're much cheaper. as has been pointed out, we as consumers comtinually demand the same - or more - functions for less money. this mentality is largely responsible not only for the loss of American manufacturing jobs, but also for the poor quality of many imported CE products. we've succeeded in driving down prices to the point that a DVD player or a TV is now almost a disposable item... if it craps out, it's cheaper and easier to simply buy a new one... and dump the old ones into landfills. but the "hidden cost" we pay for those cheap goods is that they don't last as long, and we have to buy them more often. the manufacturers consider the cost of replacing defective units (warranty or otherwise, it's the same to them) against the cost of an on-going quality inspection system, and find it cheaper to accept a certain percentage of failures than to ensure top quality going out the door. it's all about the money.
I certainly agree that the most recent electronic devices are less reliable. I think it is due to the manufacture trying to get his device in the market before the other guy. I recently purchased a Flip Video. It does not work nor do the fixes they sent me. I am almost getting to the point of not upgrading anything or buying new equipment anymore. And then the hoops they make you jump through to return their merchandise is almost criminal.
Well, I owned a Samsung SCH-a950 cell phone and recently replaced it with the Samsung Gleam. I almost prefer the older phone, even if it was puttering out (about 2 years old). I received a MacBook for Christmas which I am MORE than thrilled with, considering my previous laptop went through numerous hard drives, motherboards, and an extra gig of ram to help speed it up (can't tell you how well that didn't work!). My iPod photo has recently kicked the bucket, and it is nearly 3 years old. I don't think I'm really seeing a decline in quality, honestly, it's about even.
Comment #20, posted by billdbau47, shows a growing problem through out the electronics industry. Lead was originally introduced in the 1940s to combat a problem known as 'tin whiskering'. While lead is the most reliable method of mitigating this problem, it has been outlawed by the European Union and is on the way to being outlawed in the USA. Only military and medical equipment are exempt from these rules and component manufactures build everything tin free since their major customers are for consumer electronics. There is a considerable amount of research going on to find another solution to the growth of tin whiskers (do a google or yahoo search) but it does not get the attention it deserves. The consumer manufactures would rather that you replace your equipment every couple of years (more sales for them).
If you ever worked in manufacturing then you would know there are obvious problems. The pay stinks and the people most likely to act like used car salesmen get promoted to make decisions. You need continuous training to keep up with the changes but the people with skills can't be afforded time off the job to further their training. Shrinkage in product size causes a problem for older workers and the younger workers normally have a false sense of reality. If yor read Ann Rand's, "Atlas Shrugged," you will see what happens to the main character's hard working assistant. He dies.
You are right on!!! I have been saying for months that qualitiy is in an abrupt decline!!! Networking, previously a fool-proof discipline, now is so arduous and arcane that I can't even find someone who can do it reliably and well. TigerDirect, who 10 years ago sold bulletproof and flawless equipment, now sells not only unreliable and shoddy computers at 'bargain'(some bargain when you are up all night, repeatedly, trying to get it to work! Or worse, I just spent $1400 for a data recovery service because their RAID 1 array just...isn't!!) prices, and worse, sells 'warranties' that are anything but; they are actually banking, it appears, on the unit going down... they don't replace, you get a 'coupon' that you can use only at TigerDirect and it only takes 6 weeks or so to get it to you after you send the unit, at your expense, to their 'warranty' center. Thus, they collect the price of the machine, the price of the warranty, you are locked into buying more of their shoddy equipment and then they 'refurbish' the machine you send back and sell it again... maybe back to you with your 'coupon' six weeks later. What kind of a scheme is that??? Is that even legal?? Don't even get me started on HP, whose stuff won't work even out of the box due to poor software and the need to connect HP peripherals ONLY to HP computers because they talk only their own language, and not some mystery language, like say........ Dell. No, you are correct. Manufacturers have some great engineering concepts, but actually getting a working model to the consumer that will stay together is just too big a monetary sacrifice for them. You are fooling yourself if you think anything different, or you live in a cocoon. Marc Bauder, MD
Products are getting less reliable because the individual components are less reliable. Years ago the largest customer for electronic components was the US government. Quality standards were high. Military Specification (MIL-SPEC) parts had to meet rigorous reliability standards. Therefore, even parts that weren't qualified MIL-SPEC still benefited from the quality control processes that were developed for these MIL-SPEC parts. Now, the cell phone industry has surpassed the US Military in quantity of components sold. Component manufacturers looked at it from a business point of view back in 2000-2001 and reasoned, "Why should we still strive for extremely high reliability when our largest customer's products (cell phones) are replaced once every 2 yrs?" The quality control decreased for business reasons. Added to this is the fact that the European Union has mandated Lead Free (RoHS) parts installed in any electronic components sold in Europe. The removal of lead from solder, while environmentally friendly, has caused an increase of "tin whiskers". Tin whiskers are small growths of tin protruding from the tin only (lead free solder). In a high density circuit card, these can cause electrical shorts in the circuit causing them to fail. The alloy of tin/lead kept the tin whiskers from developing. As of yet, no one is quite sure why these things grow. Much research is being done in this area right now. Be that as it may, since the European Union has such a tremendous buying power, all manufacturers have gone (or will go shortly), to lead free components. This also impacts reliability. Just my two cents . . . .
In a lot of cases all you have to do is look at the label of where the product is from or where the components inside are from. A trick the manufactures use to increase profits (do in part to the low profit margins they have) is to loosen the quality requirements they have until a high enough percentage of their product will fail just after the warranty period then before the warranty period expires it is a delicate balancing act. A lot of firmware and drivers are not tested properly that is why some devices music players, routers have to be rebooted or reset or have their firmware reloaded, in the case of other items the people who is responsible for the design are not mechanically inclined and trust the cad program too much for the design of their products, In the case of portable products with hard drives music players, laptop computers etc, the drives are able to handle movement in some directions then others that is why it is not good to move a item with a hard drive while the hard drive is spinning. I would cover integrated circuit failure/quality but that would take up a lot of time and there is not enough article space either so this will just cover the surface of product failure, please note that in the end it is all about the Benjamin’s.
I bought two Thompson TV's in three years, and they both died of power supply failure. Also, a DVD re-writer bought recently from Liteon is only a fraction of the quality (& price, so it's not all bad),of one bought two years earlier.
YES - they are NOT making things like they used to. I have been in the computer industry since computers have been (TSR's, 1981) in the publics eye. I spent over $2,800 on my first computer. I have been on an IT dept for a national corporation and handled PC's for over 300 people (laptops and desktops) and things just do not last like they did twenty years ago. Hard Drives made in the 90's still spin today. Hard drives made less than five years ago are ALL in the trash. Memory sticks in brand new PC's out of the factory are flawed so bad they have to be returned to the manufacturer. Since when is memory becoming more complex? Maybe more of it, but its still the same memory. Simply stated: They make this with less quality and cheaper parts to make it more consumable. More consumption = more money in their pockets.
Staildonut and middlenamefrank....THANK YOU!! First of all, if you are on here complaining about the lack of reliability from an APPLE product than shame on you! You should have done your research because the lack of reliability by apple is most of the reason why PC's became WAY more popular to begin with! Apple is compatible with nothing and while some of their feature are dumbed down and easy to use for the averave person who doesnt want to take the time to use thier brain, they aren't built any better than they used to be. If you payed less than $1000 for your computer (mac OR pc) you cant expect the highest quality. Lets think about this! You need a case, monitor, keyboard, mouse, motherboard, video, sound, hard drive, an optical drive or 2, floppy (if you choose), RAM, add in all the shipping costs of materials to the manufacturer (which is factored in to the total cost) especially with prices of gas being so high. Now with all those parts how much would they have to cheapen each part to get the cost down to be "affordable"? Now add in the labor, the company who puts all these parts together and makes them work....they dont work for nothing. Basically this just boils down to one cliche....you get what you pay for. And for those of you who are gonna come back at me with "oh i spent $500 on my (insert gadget) and still had problems"....if you think that $500 is alot for cutting edge technology then you are SORELY mistaken. Also, an "i"-anything is made by apple, and is therefore good for nothing but a paperweight.
I'm an EE also, and I've seen products right out of the box have minor to severe problems. The one thing that bothers me most in our electronics industry today is forsaking stability, reliability and making sure the bugs are worked out; before moving on to the next best thing. Too many manufacturers are making the mistake of not fixing what they've already botched up before introducing the next bug-laden software or hardware. In fact, I just got a new MSI motherboard (considered one of the best mfrs) and it was bad right out of the box. Recently I installed new memory into an XP Pro machine at work, one set of memory worked fine in one computer, while the identical memory, in an identical computer next door caused a corruption in Windows when the computer booted up. Fortunately I had an image of the drive, but not with everything that had been installed. It's pretty bad when now you must purchase backup software and additional drives, and take the additional day to back up data and make an image before you can do a simple hardware or software upgrade! Talk about wasting time, effort and money! Computers were supposed to make our lives more efficient, not less. I suppose if you're an end user, you're definitely at a disadvantage, because there's no school for how to deal with the daily incongruities of computers. Heck, even I have a difficult and stressful time, and I at least have a clue as to what I'm doing. I can only imagine the angry frustration of average Joe out there, no wonder there's road rage! Anyway, the key to success in computers is back up, back up and more back-up. Imaging software is good, really only for the affected computer, not for migrating to a new motherboard. Chances are the "image" will give you the blue screen of death at the STOP screen on boot up on a new mobo. In that case, you'll have to do a new install of every stinking bit of software you use and re-import your data, which is a bear if you use embedded apps like MS Outlook. That data is nested so far down into the Windows folders, it's about impossible to find, and if that's not bad enough, every time an OS is changed, they change the location of that data. I say in some ways reliability has got better, but in a lot of other ways it's got worse. Hard drive failure is a huge problem for me these days at work. Not to mention software installs that corrupt OS's, that's next in line. A Google Earth Free install last week corrupted an OS on a computer I was using in the engineering room last week, just to give you an example. Yes, the machines do more, and yes that's an avenue for self-destruction, but in turn, the manufacturers are pushing too hard, claiming all of us out here want this stuff and therefore that's why things are changing so much. I contend manufacturers should concentrate on making things work well and play nice together, even if it costs more. That way we're all happy!
I'm going to have to disagree with the person who said that the decline of modern Consumer Electronics, CE, is perceptual. Its not that we only remember the bad, and overlook the good. Where does brand loyalty come from then? If you only remember the HP computer than went' bad, why do people say, I'll only buy Dell computers now? Its not that perceptions are skewed; there is a decline in quality based on cost. The responder who said its a "Wal-Mart World" was really onto something. The harder we push for cheap electronics, the more we'll get them. And no, you don't have to ever even say the words "I want cheap electronics." You and/or your peers' shopping habits drive the market. If the choice is between two items that perform the same function, wherein one is $500 and the other is $200, the average consumer today will not do any research to find out if there is a reason that one is worth $300 more than the other. Is it a better warranty? Is it more reliable? Too late now... by the time those questions were answered the $200 model outsold the other 97 to 3. Now, the company that makes the $500 model must ask themselves, "When we roll out our next product, do we go for quality again, or do we just want to be competitive and try to turn some profits this time?" I think we all know the answer to that one. So, before we point the finger at the Sonys and HPs and Panasonics of the world, lets take a minute and consider our next purchase a little more carefully. Maybe we don't need the cheapest combination car radio/mp3/DVD player/engine monitor/navigation system in aisle 9... maybe the step up model offers something less tangible, but more desireable, like reliability or a replacement warranty. Thanks for letting me rant, I have a soft spot for personal responsibility.
I'm going to have to disagree with the person who said that the decline of modern Consumer Electronics, CE, is perceptual. Its not that we only remember the bad, and overlook the good. Where does brand loyalty come from then? If you only remember the HP computer than went' bad, why do people say, I'll only buy Dell computers now? Its not that perceptions are skewed; there is a decline in quality based on cost. The responder who said its a "Wal-Mart World" was really onto something. The harder we push for cheap electronics, the more we'll get them. And no, you don't have to ever even say the words "I want cheap electronics." You and/or your peers' shopping habits drive the market. If the choice is between two items that perform the same function, wherein one is $500 and the other is $200, the average consumer today will not do any research to find out if there is a reason that one is worth $300 more than the other. Is it a better warranty? Is it more reliable? Too late now... by the time those questions were answered the $200 model outsold the other 97 to 3. Now, the company that makes the $500 model must ask themselves, "When we roll out our next product, do we go for quality again, or do we just want to be competitive and try to turn some profits this time?" I think we all know the answer to that one. So, before we point the finger at the Sonys and HPs and Panasonics of the world, lets take a minute and consider our next purchase a little more carefully. Maybe we don't need the cheapest combination car radio/mp3/DVD player/engine monitor/navigation system in aisle 9... maybe the step up model offers something less tangible, but more desireable, like reliability or a replacement warranty. Thanks for letting me rant, I have a soft spot for personal responsibility.
I have the same experinces. My sony Laptop needed a new keyboard within 6 month, a new battery in 9 month. I replace almost every two years DVD/CD RW drive on one of my 2 mini tower computers, hard drives about ebery 3 years. The quality stinks. They are coming out with to many products without testing them, just so they always have a new version to sell.
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26 Posted by dugger1203 on Thu Sep 3, 2009 3:49PM EDT Report Abuse
Electronics are less reliable these days because most of them are now manufactured in China...